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Forum - Going to give CJ a second chance...

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Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 12:39
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

You stated in another thread:

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"But I still think that capitalism promotes superstition and propaganda to a high extent, not only because it's easier to sell to and govern simple people."
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I'm giving you an opportunity to defend this position. Because this is not the type of forum where you get to make statements like that and then cop out when asked to defend them.

If you cannot defend this position, it appears you are just as guilty of parroting unsubstantiated dogma that fits the narrative you want to believe. That is not being skeptical. It is being an ideologue.

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CyborgJesusPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 15:05
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Level: 6
CS Original

There's a difference between "can" and "will". I come here to have fun after work, not to spend hours discussing positions that will have no influence whatsoever on my life, no matter how the discussion goes.

If you're interested in why I think making people think less critically is very much in the interest of corporations as well as governments, watch "Century of Self", read Bernays' Propaganda, Chomsky's "Manufacturing Consent", the less known "Persuasion Power" by Blair Warren or simply spend a few months in marketing.
Selling stuff or making people support ideas that they shouldn't have any interest in (like death tax for little/no net worth right wingers) becomes so much easier when people don't question everything you say, but "trust" experts or charismatic leaders.

And as capitalism basically advocates me competing vs everyone else - a system where my material well-being is in no way related to my impact on other people (at most it is related to my perceived impact, if they're my customers), I'm indirectly encouraged to use these skills as best as I can - to increase profit for my shareholders.

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Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 15:11
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

"There's a difference between "can" and "will". I come here to have fun after work, not to spend hours discussing positions that will have no influence whatsoever on my life, no matter how the discussion goes."

lol crybaby

Also thanks for the list of documentaries I saw years ago. Manufacturing Consent? Seriously?

So are you going to defend your statement? Name dropping movies everyones already seen ain't gonna cut it.

#3 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 15:23
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Level: 6
CS Original

Nah, I'll go wash my crotch. Attack anything I just said and I'll reply later.

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Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 15:25
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Hey you and Merola have something in common: You think you can spew pretentious, unsubstantiated dogma and get away with it. You also seem to think you're the only people capable of watching documentaries.

Sorry broseph. This ain't TZM. Just because you're criticizing the status quo doesn't mean you're automatically right. No one here is going to give you the benefit of the doubt just because you're blasting on capitalism. I think your statement is total bullshit and so far you haven't given me any reason to change that opinion.

If you don't like being called on shit like this then don't do it. Pretty simple.

Can't defend your beliefs? Then don't shout them at every opportunity.

#5 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 15:46
(0)
 

Level: 6
CS Original

Srsly - If you don't bring an argument, there's not much to do for me. I've given the basic strategy - I'll give one example - a few weeks ago the german TV channel RTL aired a fake documentary on anti-electrosmog services, it's not the first time, so it's probably bought space. It's intelligently targeted at the same people who watch fake court shows and will buy this shit. If I now go out and promote critical thinking, I'll hit resistance of anybody who is in the high profit markets, whether selling ringtones, running "win money now" shows, or promoting fraudulent pseudo-science.

You argue that this has nothing to do with capitalism allowing people to get rich by increasing profit - which is, as I see it, easier to do when people don't realize how high your profits actually are and how low their gain is. Go.

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Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 15:50
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

So now we've gone from you not caring enough to defend your original statement to me not bringing an argument to this thread.

Save your examples for someone who is interested in intellectual dishonesty. I'm not.

#7 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 15:53
(0)
 

Level: 6
CS Original

Nice show of not giving any argument yourself, while ignoring mine. I'll save this one for my swipe file, so it's not a complete waste of time.

#8 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 15:54
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

HERF DERF NO U

Seriously, you look like a colossal tool who likes to open his mouth but not defend what spews forth when he does.

#9 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
MuertosPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:00
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Paid Disinformation Blogger

Level: 14
CS Original

I built a solar car!

#10 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:01
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Hurry, sell it to some "simple people."

#11 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
NanosPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:02
(0)
 

Level: 0
CS Original

But CJ is right.

If I wasn't so busy myself I'd join in, but as I'm already fighting of the hoards of angry fat rich people on another forum, so I'll pass on this one too myself, or I'll never get back to answering you about my solar vehicle!

#12 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:03
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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

With ideological allies like this how can CJ go wrong?

#13 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
NanosPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:09
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Level: 0
CS Original

Its not fun is it when someone takes the ball away you want to play with..

#14 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:13
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Level: 6
CS Original

Your mom looks like a colossal tool.

No - really. What the hell is this about? Am I pissing you off because I don't want to spend an hour collecting all my thoughts on capitalism?

C'mon - for what? Our experiences are probably so different that we won't agree, and even if we would, it wouldn't change anything for you, it wouldn't change anything for me. That's why I'm not looking for debates, but for new input and some enjoyment.

I've given a few examples, you compared me to Merola (Maybe I'll go buy a Marimba, yay)...I lol'd at the idea of VTV reading all this junk, which he probably will - but it doesn't make any fucking sense to me at all.

Bring a darn argument or I'll conclude that you're just trolling me.

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Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:15
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Nah, you pissed me off with your sweeping generalization about "simple people" when you are just some damn kid with a big mouth.

Sometimes you remind me of that Scott Winter guy on the Facebook group. Parroting any crapola as long as its anti-establishment. Its garbage and its tiresome.

Nobody made you post the statement I started this thread with and it wasn't even relevant to the discussion at hand. You don't need to fling anti-establishment rhetoric all the damn time, especially when its absurd, insulting and unsubstantiated.

This thread was an opportunity for you to defend that statement or retract it. You've made it clear that you have no intentions of doing either therefore I see no reason to view you as anything but another dogmatic woo spewer willing to swallow any bullshit as long as its anti-establishment.

That's not skepticism.

#16 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:42
(0)
 

Level: 6
CS Original

I think it is quite relevant. When you're discussing the power science has to counter wishful thinking you'll have to take opposing forces into account that try to preserve it, as long as it's useful.

You're just trying to frame me as some kind of anti-all punk w/o posting any content at all, nor knowing who I am or what I do.

#17 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:44
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

"You're just trying to frame me as some kind of anti-all punk w/o posting any content at all"

Am I trying to frame you or do you frame yourself?

#18 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
domokatoPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:46
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Level: 4
CS Original

The continual cutting of funding for education does seem to be indicative of how high a priority the US government places on education. Or it could be indicative of how much the government would rather have an uneducated populace (less likely since it seems to me a better educated populace would create economic strength in the future). There isn't really a way to tell, but either way, fighting for a better education system is something very much worth doing, IMO, especially when the goal is to reduce irrational thinking and beliefs like we try to do here.

#19 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:49
(0)
 

Level: 6
CS Original

I'll repeat myself - bring your argument why my position or my examples are wrong.

I've explained myself in a very simple way - and I've stated why I'm not interested in a longer debate - while you're accusing me of parroting crap and being insulting. That's just hypocritical when you don't bring any argument yourself.

#20 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:50
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

You can either substantiate the initial statement with evidence or you can retract it.

Exactly what don't you understand about that?

#21 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
anticultistPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:54
(0)
 

Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original

CJ If you're not even gonna defend your own statement then simply retract it because not defending it is making you look kinda sloppy.

#22 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:56
(0)
 

Level: 6
CS Original

Give an argument on why my reasoning and example are wrong, then I'll consider augmenting my statement further.

#23 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:58
(0)
 

Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Intellectual dishonesty at its finest.

#24 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
domokatoPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 16:59
(0)
 

Level: 4
CS Original

I don't think CJ can defend this position nor can anyone attack it. I think it is just his opinion, rather than a matter of fact. If it is just an opinion, CJ should say so.

#25 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
sorryPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 17:04
(0)
 

Level: 12
CS Original

He would have to prove that capitalism allows for people to be more easily governed.

#26 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
domokatoPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 17:06
(0)
 

Level: 4
CS Original

I thought he was trying to say that stupid people are more easily governed and more easily manipulated into buying shit, and that therefore the government and corporations do not promote critical thinking.

#27 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
anticultistPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 17:18
(0)
 

Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original

"But I still think that capitalism promotes superstition and propaganda to a high extent, not only because it's easier to sell to and govern simple people."

superstition ? how what is so that capitalism can create a credulous belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge. How can something that is merely a system of transferring resources about via medium create this ?

Likewise not only because it's easier to sell to and govern simple people, how can you say that using superstition and propaganda is easier to control stupid people? Do you know how many people have PhD's and are all part of the capitalist system and beleive that its function works perfectly?
Do you have the tenacity to call these people stupid, easily controllable, superstitious ?

How can you validate this claim?

There is a set of starting questions please validate your stance.

#28 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Edward L WinstonPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 17:26
(0)
 

President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion!

Level: 150
CS Original

My mother always said that at the dinner table, you never discuss religion or politics, though we always did. Now I understand why (actually I learned that lesson at 11 while visiting a Mormon friend's house).

#29 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
anticultistPosted: Aug 03, 2010 - 17:29
(0)
 

Brainwashing you for money

Level: 15
CS Original

Im not even interested in the answers I am just doing what CJ requested present an argument.

All I know is I dont give much of a fuck lately about peoples opinions, theyre meaningless. Not to be taken rudely or personally I just mean this in general about all these people who want to fix the world.

Anyone for after dinner coffee and mints? we can retire to the living room and continue the debate there.

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