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Forum - Twitter anarchists praise Somalia as a positive example.

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MuertosPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 10:53
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Saw this on my Twitter feed this morning retweeted by MoxAmok, an anarchist:

[mises] No country in the developing world is progressing as fast at the stateless Somalia. http://fb.me/IDAiQ2bg

I replied:

[muertos] @MoxAmok Wait a minute, did you just praise Somalia as an example of a successful society?!?

[MoxAmok] The per capita GDP of Somalia has nearly tripled since the state fell after their civil war 20 years ago. #anarchy #amagi

[MoxAmok] @muertos Absence of gov't alone isn't enough to create a successful society, but they have grown more than other African nations with states

[Muertos] @MoxAmok A hideous blasted wasteland full of starvation, piracy and brutal warlords? That's progress? Really?

[MoxAmok] @muertos Suffice it to say I won't be packing my bags any time soon, but I think their relative success is worth noting.

[MoxAmok] @muertos A wasteland with improved life expectancy, economic prosperity, education, etc is progress compared to life under Siad Barre.

One of his allies picked up the thread:

[PoliticusRex] @muertos @MoxAmok It has nothing to do with the amount of success. The point is, however bad the society, it's better without gov't #amagi

[Muertos] @MoxAmok Wow. If you anarchists are pointing to Somalia, you really don't have much to work with in the way of examples, do you?

[MoxAmok] @muertos Nope. Neither did abolitionists before ending slavery, or suffragettes before equal voting rights, still they fought and won.

[Muertos] @MoxAmok LOL. Well, I have to say I admire your esprit de corps, if nothing else...

Am I just being a dick here, or does it seem ludicrous that anyone would praise Somalia as a good example of a country where anarchism works?

An aside, but does anybody know what "amagi" is?

#1 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Real RoxettePosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 10:57
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There ARE more sluts in public schools. Shut up and let me explain.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa. He's not a regular anarchist, he's a part of an even nuttier minority called anarcho-capitalist which the majority of anarchists think are a joke. Only an anarcho-capitalist would link Mises and actually think Somalia is great at all. Real anarchists are socialists, and that's been the anarchist tradition up until the 1970s when classical liberals stole the term to look cool to hippies in America.

Essentially outside of America, Canada, England, and Australia if you say "anarchist" people know you mean some sort of anti-authoritarian socialist. In short only well off, young, white western males believe in anarcho-capitalism, and they're almost always pompous dicks that have no friends.

To add even more to my ranting response: people like that guy fuck up anarchist discussions all the time online, and are really the worst thing since the "Anarchist" Cookbook. They really make me want to abandon the term all together.

What's funny though in a debate if you bring up Somalia with anarcho-capitalists, they'll often flip-fop on praising it like the Mises Institute has and bring up things like the war lords and Islamic councils as examples of why it isn't anarchist... despite previously using it as a way to praise their "brand" of anarchism, which no one who isn't a complete moron would do.

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MuertosPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 11:04
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"SOMALIA IS NOT THE MOVEMENT!"

Sorry Rox, couldn't resist. ;-)

#3 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Real RoxettePosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 11:06
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There ARE more sluts in public schools. Shut up and let me explain.

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lol, yeah, but capitalism isn't the movement either, these jackasses just showed up. Unfortunately the broader anarchist movement doesn't have a leader like Merola who can silence those who disagree, otherwise classical liberals wouldn't be calling themselves anarchists.

#4 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 11:09
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Anarchism is stupid regardless of flavor.

#5 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JoePosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 11:10
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Somalia's GDP has nearly tripled? Last time I looked Somalia has recognizable economy.

#6 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
MuertosPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 11:20
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Yeah, they found two more quarters left in the sand to add to the one they've been saving since 1991.

#7 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 11:21
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South Park taught me all I needed to know about Somalia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehweLPluNpY

#8 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 11:58
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It has nothing to do with the amount of success. The point is, however bad the society, it's better without gov't #amagi

That's funny.

#9 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 12:10
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I had to Google "amagi" to figure out what it meant:

The cuneiform spelling ama-gi4 has been adopted as a symbol by several "liberty"-oriented groups. The journal of the Hayek Society at the London School of Economics, the largest libertarian student group in England,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ama-gi

#10 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
CyborgJesusPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 12:17
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Yeah, modern governments are just like slavery. Except that you can move your assets abroad, change your primary residence or expatriate altogether.

#11 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 12:25
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#12 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
The Real RoxettePosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 13:30
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There ARE more sluts in public schools. Shut up and let me explain.

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http://mises.org/daily/2701</p>

  • Life expectancy increased from 46 to 48.5 years. This is a poor expectancy as compared with developed countries. But in any measurement of welfare, what is important to observe is not where a population stands at a given time, but what is the trend. Is the trend positive, or is it the reverse?
  • Number of one-year-olds fully immunized against measles rose from 30 to 40 percent.
  • Number of physicians per 100,000 population rose from 3.4 to 4.
  • Number of infants with low birth weight fell from 16 per thousand to 0.3 — almost none.
  • Infant mortality per 1,000 births fell from 152 to 114.9.
  • Maternal mortality per 100,000 births fell from 1,600 to 1,100.
  • Percent of population with access to sanitation rose from 18 to 26.
  • Percent of population with access to at least one health facility rose from 28 to 54.8.
  • Percent of population in extreme poverty (i.e., less than $1 per day) fell from 60 to 43.2.
  • Radios per thousand population rose from 4 to 98.5.
  • Telephones per thousand population rose from 1.9 to 14.9.
  • TVs per 1,000 population rose from 1.2 to 3.7.
  • Fatalities due to measles fell from 8,000 to 5,600.

So it's safe to assume all of these improvements happened with no interference from outside governments and without the help of the Islamic Courts Union or the Ethiopians?

#13 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
MuertosPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 14:19
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OMG GUBBERMINT IS EEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL!

#14 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
JimJesusPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 15:09
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Bacon Pancakes! Making Bacon Pancakes, take some Bacon and I'll put it in a Pancake! Bacon Pancakes that's what it's gonna make...Bacon Pancaaaaaake!! ♪

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I might as well weigh in on this, I won't debate it but my two cents.

1. Somolia is not 'anarchy' by any anarchist standard. It was a failed coup that resulted in civil war and chaos. They have had a transitional government for a few years now, so their 'anarchy' test is long over.

2. Somilia is bad but compared to what? The previous regime was a communist country with one of the most horrific human rights record at that time and suffered from eminence poverty. As a result, many people fled to Ethiopia.

After the coup the area did get better. Not great, but a country can't go from grinding poverty and tyranny to freedom and prosperity overnight, or in 10 years for that matter. As bad as it was, Somali refugees left Ethiopia and returned to their homes.

Somolia isn't an example of anarcho-anything. What it is an example of is that anything is better than brutal Communist states.

#15 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
Agent MattPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 15:11
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I'm glad we are all in agreement that anarchy is retarded.

#16 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]
EdPosted: Jun 30, 2011 - 15:37
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Somalian pirates we!

#17 [ Top | Reply to Topic ]

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