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Kepp | Posted: Apr 01, 2011 - 15:38 |
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Level: 5 CS Original | I don't know much about this topic except the basics. I decided to start this thread to see what I can learn about the subject. Is it a necessary evil is my main inquiry. | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Apr 01, 2011 - 16:48 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Yes, because AMERICA RULES! | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Apr 01, 2011 - 18:29 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original | DEFINE YOUR TERMS! No really, you need to define what you mean by "empire" because it could just as easily be argued that the US is not an empire but rather a hegemonic power. This is a thesis that has been forwarded by many offensive structural realists like John Mearsheimer or Robert Pape. The notion is that hegemons are able to project power abroad without ever having to invaded or occupy and directly rule an external polity. So, where Rome essentially became an empire by conquering and controlling territories directly by hard power, the US is capable of flexing various means (threat of force, threat of sanctions, promise of reciprocation) in order to pull various countries under its influence. The US doesn't govern other nations, but it does influence them- and I would argue that this is a subtle, but important difference. Now, is it necessary? Well, that all depends on how we understand the trajectory of international history. It should also be clear that there is cultural hegemony, but the ways in which culture is transmitted via language or other avenues is very complicated. | |||||
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Kepp | Posted: Apr 01, 2011 - 18:46 |
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Level: 5 CS Original | Nice I didn't have to google any words. ;) Any recommended books on this subject? | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Apr 01, 2011 - 18:48 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original | The Tragedy of Great Power Politics. John J. Mearsheimer. | |||||
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Kepp | Posted: Apr 01, 2011 - 18:55 |
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Level: 5 CS Original | I've made a habit of reading one book a week. I think I'll pick that up, thanks. :) | |||||
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Ez | Posted: Apr 01, 2011 - 20:56 |
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Level: 3 CS Original | Thats kind of the view I have of the world today, as opposed to a 'Imperial Age' its more or less a 'Superpower Age' (since WW2; Soviet Russia and the USA and in the future probably China, USA, India, Russia) who have influence over other nations but do not actually govern over them themselves and due to this, don't have absolute control over them, just a fair amount of influence. | |||||
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Muertos | Posted: Apr 01, 2011 - 22:26 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original | Not counting lands acquired from Native Americans (which probably should be counted), the United States has been acquiring territory--whether in the form of direct annexation, quasi-colonies or client states--since 1818. Whether it's necessary or not is irrelevant. It's been happening for almost 200 years and will continue to happen. Even if it's unnecessary, it's not going to stop. | |||||
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Ez | Posted: Apr 02, 2011 - 02:44 |
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Level: 3 CS Original | It probably isn't a good thing for the US or any nation to have too much influence, but if it has to be someone I'd rather it the US than Iran or North Korea (or the Soviet Union if it still existed) | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Apr 02, 2011 - 09:16 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original |
I'm interested in whether you view the latest iteration of American political power projection as "imperialism" or not. Certainly you have the comparative historical perspective considering your area of focus in history, and I'd be interested in your take. Personally I am unconvinced as America's territorial conquest ceased part way through the 20th century and was replaced with a "sphere of influence" model of power projection. Do we define empire by territories held, how they are administered, or the type of political power held by the sovereign body? | |||||
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Muertos | Posted: Apr 02, 2011 - 11:36 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original | I think the attack and occupation of Iraq, and especially the (attempted) reconstitution of it as a US-friendly client state, counts as imperialism. The main objective in the attack on Iraq appears to have been to secure a permanent US-friendly base from which to launch future attacks in the Middle East, if necessary, to defend access to petroleum. This isn't by any means the only reason for the Iraq war, but it seems to have been an important one. Is this an "empire" in the classic Rome/British colony/Risk-board-game type sense? No. But how much does that really matter? Also don't forget that the US still holds colonies that DO measure up to the old 19th century type of colonies. Puerto Rico, Guam, Saipan, and USVI will probably never be assimilated as states, but clearly we'll continue to hold them as colonies. Most of those we got by conquest (Puerto Rico in 1898, the Pacific islands during WWII) with the exception of USVI which I think we purchased. These definitely are territories directly administered as subordinate colonies, which is exactly how we held the Philippines for almost 50 years and the Canal Zone for longer than that. I also don't see US involvement in Latin America changing any time soon. We typically invade one or another banana republic or tropical island every 20 years or so to effect a change of government. The last time we did this was Haiti in 1994, so we're probably due for another intervention soon. When Castro's regime finally collapses in Cuba, which can't be far off, I'm quite sure our long involvement in Cuban affairs will start over again, and we'll probably have to invade Cuba at least once in the next 50 years to prop up whatever pro-US regime we wind up supporting once Fidel and Raul are worm food. That said, our imperialist adventures are probably beginning to taper off gradually. We're being displaced by other powers, but it won't happen overnight. In about 100 years we'll probably be where Britain is now, a grouchy ex-empire with a couple of tiny far-flung possessions that we cling to tenaciously to remind ourselves of our former greatness. | |||||
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Kaiser Falkner | Posted: Apr 02, 2011 - 21:31 |
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HAIL HYDRA Level: 6 CS Original |
Empire and hegemony are predicated on two very distinct views of the nation and the self. Empire is dependent upon the notion that the self can be extended and preserved through domination and conquest with wealth extracted back to the metropole. This model. however, results in a very costly extension of technologies of power that enter into the realms of others. Hegemony, however, follows a Foucauldian model of power where the other is disciplined and governes itself, but does so after it has implicitly taken in the rules of the game. The Cold War was not a war of empires, but a struggle to set the rules by which others would regulate themselves. I would say it matters because the rules are fundamentally differently and they result in two very (subtly) different ways in which power replicates itself. Iraq is certainly a case in which many nodes of conflict emerged, but to equate it to imperial conquest, I think, is made at a superficial level. Nation-building does replicate "acceptable actors" with whom the US acts, but it does not simply extend American power de facto. If it did, we'd certainly have far more territory and far less lack of control in places the US has sponsored dubious regimes. I am wary of using "empire" to describe what the US does because I see the technologies of power being very different, and to understand the way power operates it must be named accurately. | |||||
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