Skeptic Project

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 18:53

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Ordo Ab Chao.

Level: 8
CS Original

I'm thinking of starting a Debate team next year (junior year) in my high school because it doesn't have one.

One of the cornerstones of what I plan is having everyone learn about logical fallacies, since they seem to ruin a debate.

Any ideas?

http://www.theskepticsguide.org/

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 19:08

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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Check out the Skeptic's Guide to the Universeve 5x5 podcast, many episodes explaining various fallacies.

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 19:11

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Ordo Ab Chao.

Level: 8
CS Original

Any ideas for actually practicing debates?

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 19:14

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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

Get a gun.

domokato

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 19:18

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Level: 4
CS Original

I'm not sure if pointing out logical fallacies is a good debating tactic. That would just make you look like a snob since most people won't know what you're talking about. Debate is more about rhetoric than having a solid argument, or even evidence.

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 19:18

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Ordo Ab Chao.

Level: 8
CS Original

LOL.

I was thinking of a points system.

1) 10 minutes for the debate

2) Both debaters start with a perfect score of 100 points

3) Each logical fallacy committed deducts 5 points, is called out, and the debate continues afterward

4) The debater with the most amount of points is deemed the more logically argumentative person of the two (winner).

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 19:21

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Ordo Ab Chao.

Level: 8
CS Original

Exactly domokato

Which is why we'd have sort of a crash course on critical thinking early in the school year before we actually start debating later on.

Yes, it's not something most high school kids are interested in. But I just need 10 or so people to have a solid club. with 2500 kids in my school, I think I can do it.

Muertos

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 19:54

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Paid Disinformation Blogger

Level: 14
CS Original

Good luck, but so few people understand logical fallacies that I think it would be difficult to enforce a rule system based on them.

Debaters on the high school level tend to be wanna-be lawyers, drama kids who didn't get cast in the school show, and "issue kids"--liberal avengers and rage-filled, ax-to-grind ultraconservatives. You may also get some CT's. The only way I see it working is with a faculty adviser who is prepared to beat them all down mercilessly.

domokato

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 20:04

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Level: 4
CS Original

Sounds like you're trying to make a logic and argumentation club. Seriously, debate is chalk full of logical fallacies. Just watch a political one. Red herrings and stawman arguments to the max. Debate is about convincing your audience, regardless of logic or evidence. It is the very reason some scientists refuse to debate creationists.

If you train people to debate with strict logic and without logical fallacies, they will probably lose in actual debates.

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 20:05

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Ordo Ab Chao.

Level: 8
CS Original

We have plenty of those. That's what I was thinking.

#10

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 20:06

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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

People aren't interested in logic. They're interested in rhetoric. Anyone who disagrees with me hates freedom.

As a skeptic you're in the minority. Might as well accept it now.

#11

CyborgJesus

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 20:15

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Level: 6
CS Original

Why not try to make some kind of rationality/skeptics-group?

I had one of those at school, mostly commies looking for rational arguments in political discourse, but we did cover religious nonsense and some fallacies (mostly comparison logic) as well. God, I think some of my friends are still in it.

#12

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 20:23

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Genuine American Monster

Level: 70
CS Original

CJ that's a pretty good idea for a commie.

#13

Posted: Nov 18, 2010 - 20:24

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Ordo Ab Chao.

Level: 8
CS Original

Hm.... you have a very good point domo.

Perhaps that's a better idea. We have a mock trial team, and every student seems to think debates and American court trial procedure are the same thing, which it's not.

CyborgJesus, I will approach the counselor with that idea. Thank you.

Okay, ideas for this group? How did yours work?

#14