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domokato | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 11:59 |
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Level: 4 CS Original | What's the best strategy for the current economic situation. Conservatives want to stop deficit spending, saying that it is the future generations that will have to pay for it, while liberals say that deficit spending is the best way to get people working again to kick-start the economy. Who's right? I heard that this situation we're in currently is unique because we already have a high national debt going into this recession, and that makes deficit spending difficult, or something. | |||||
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Edward L Winston | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 12:19 |
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | We're still paying for Reagan's romp through the presidency, so they can shut the fuck up about that. | |||||
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Genogza | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 15:53 |
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Life's Too Short Level: 1 CS Original | It's funny you say that, because it seems no matter how many times I tell Conservatives about Reagan's faults, they all turtle up and defend him like he's the second coming. I've heard Conservatives on the radio(And I'm not making this up) talk about getting his face put on Mt. Rushmore. They always seem to forget about that deficit. | |||||
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domokato | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 16:07 |
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Level: 4 CS Original | Interesting. Not directly related to my question, though. Ignoring the past, what's the best economic strategy to take moving forward? | |||||
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Muertos | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 17:07 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original | Reagan??!?! What about G.W. Bush? He ran up a far higher deficit, both in absolute dollars and in relative terms, than Reagan did. In fact Dubya took a budget surplus (which we had thanks to that evil "liberal" Bill Clinton) and sank it into a deficit in less than one term. Conservatives are pro-deficit. Considering that the only president who's ever balanced a budget since the 1920s was a Democrat, I have a hard time believing conservatives are really anti-deficit. They have only pretended to be so since January 20, 2009. Hm, I forget, what happened on that day that could have made them change their position so suddenly? | |||||
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domokato | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 17:23 |
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Level: 4 CS Original | So...are you saying there is actually no harm in continuing to spend in order to stimulate the economy? Who, exactly, are we borrowing from anyway? | |||||
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Muertos | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 17:29 |
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Paid Disinformation Blogger Level: 14 CS Original |
Wall Street financial institutions, and China. If I'm not mistaken those are the two largest consumers of U.S. Treasury bonds. I could be wrong, though. Economics isn't my strong suit. Spending to stimulate the economy is good, but ultimately we need to build jobs. How to do that? I say invest in education and the green sector, but what the hell do I know. After all I'm just a troll who thinks the movies are the movement. | |||||
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domokato | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 18:21 |
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Level: 4 CS Original | Wikipedia outlines different theories about the national debt and how risky it is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#Debate_regarding_a_.22danger_level.22_of_debt]. Sounds like the question is still up in the air. Seems like we could spend more to create jobs, but that could be potentially disastrous, but no one really knows for sure. Since we don't know, I say we should try the more altruistic thing first by running a deficit and creating jobs, and if we find that doesn't work, then we can say we have no other option but to cut spending at the expense of those who are jobless. | |||||
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Edward L Winston | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 18:44 |
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Privatize everything, that creates jobs! It worked for Russia... right? Did it? | |||||
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Kepp | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 19:10 |
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Level: 5 CS Original | Instead of borrowing to create jobs let borrow to keep the tax cuts for the wealthy! | |||||
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Genogza | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 21:32 |
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Life's Too Short Level: 1 CS Original | Domokato, here's the issue. And forgive me for not being an economist, but I'll do my best to put it as simple as I know. Basically what Muertos said with a few things added. Spending is good, but only for the short term(Mainly to keep the economy from completely tanking). And yes, the best thing to do as always is to create jobs. The problem? We don't produce anything anymore. We don't make anything anymore that would give us new jobs. Here's a few small examples, and again, I'm winging it here: In the 80's we had the computer revolution, and software infusion, with the likes Commadore, Microsoft, IBM, Apple, etc. The computer age launched, upping office jobs and products for and such for around 7-8 years. This isn't what spurred the surge in our 80's economy, but it was a very big part of it. The 90's we had the internet and information age, which in turn fed off of the previous computer age. We created, manufactured, and sold products based off of this new technology. The problem was the technology was too young and people jumped on it too fast, inflating the value in the competitive markets for .com domains and other numerous websites(hence the dot-com bubble.) It's a lot more complicated then I put it, but that's just a dumbed down version. 2000's came the housing, and I'm sure everyone here knows this story. Basically what we need is new/innovative products, new energy, communications, etc. We will need another technological revolution if we ever want to pull ourselves completely out of this mess. Because if we don't, then most of the jobs lost during this recession might not come back. | |||||
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Omni-Science | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 21:36 |
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Ordo Ab Chao. Level: 8 CS Original | I wonder if each boom and bust cycle moves us one step closer to a technocracy... | |||||
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CyborgJesus | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 22:33 |
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Level: 6 CS Original | The US? Sure, just after you got an atheist for president. | |||||
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Omni-Science | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 22:49 |
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Ordo Ab Chao. Level: 8 CS Original | I wonder when that'll happen? | |||||
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CyborgJesus | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 23:01 |
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Level: 6 CS Original | Shortly after a small team of /b-tards with a good sense of humor and outstanding engineering skills disguised themselves as Jesus, descended from heaven with their as angel wings disguised jetpacks and told the evangelical south that to get to heaven, all they needed to do is kill themselves. | |||||
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Edward L Winston | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 23:13 |
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | I think that's called Project Blue Beam, Jesus | |||||
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CyborgJesus | Posted: Oct 26, 2010 - 23:52 |
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Level: 6 CS Original | I think they'll call it Project Chargin Mah Lazer. And yes, it will happen. One year after Merola wins his Oscar for best documentary. Googled PBB: | |||||
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Edward L Winston | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 00:51 |
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Connection between too much pizza and doughnuts and project bluebook, or false-flag, you decide! | |||||
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Kepp | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 06:16 |
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Level: 5 CS Original | "I wonder when that'll happen? " Honestly I think there is a small chance that Obama is a closet atheist. | |||||
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Alton | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 07:49 |
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Level: 1 CS Original | I think the best bet is for investors to truly invest in affordable green and clean technologies right now rather than spreading hot air. In return, this will eventually create jobs and give consumers newer stuff to purchase that doesn't rely heavily on oil. Also, many who became unemployed from retail, construction, manufacturing and logistic jobs should take this opportunity to get into the medical and technological fields. Overall, the market can naturally play out on its own where an equilibrium will emerge, but to me politicians will only cause convolutedness with their ongoing right vs. left warfare when it comes to the economy. | |||||
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domokato | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 12:28 |
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Level: 4 CS Original | If people are really losing their jobs to automation and outsourcing, then the answer seems to me to be education. We should give more opportunity for these people to move up and become professionals. It seems to me like the internet is a growing and unsaturated market. You can always create a new website that people will find valuable. Or you could innovate and start a new business. Or do research for a university. Seems to me there's always opportunity at the leading edge (of business, science, or technology). Just those without the skills aren't in a position to seize those opportunities. For the short term, government spending to create jobs sounds good, but in the long term technological unemployment will eventually sap the lower-middle class. They should be allowed to move up, not down. It's better for them and it's better for the rest of us because it will create a stronger economy. | |||||
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advancedatheist | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 14:46 |
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Level: 3 CS Original | Setting aside the fact that Webster Tarpley comes from a LaRouchie background, some of his proposals interest me: A moratorium on all foreclosures of primary residential homes for at least five years; a Tobin tax to discourage parasitic financial speculation; capital controls to keep people like George Soros from attacking various nations' currencies; the abolition of derivatives; a program where the U.S. Government (not the Federal Reserve) issues zero-interest loans to people who want to go into business doing something real, instead of engaging in financial speculation (farming, mining, manufacturing, scientific or medical research, etc.); building a high speed rail connecting major U.S. cities as an alternative to flying; and so forth. These ideas might not work, but at least they don't sound like the false alternatives offered by our current political system. | |||||
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Edward L Winston | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 15:29 |
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Did you know George H W Bush is responsible for atomic bombs and they had robot warriors in World War II? According to Webster Tarpley, it's true! | |||||
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The Burger King | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 17:08 |
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I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me? Level: 5 CS Original | @Muertos >>Spending to stimulate the economy is good, but ultimately we need to build jobs. How to do that? I say invest in education and the green sector, but what the hell do I know. After all I'm just a troll who thinks the movies are the movement.<< I think your right on education but the current education at least for public schools is horrible. I have felt I learned more out of school than in school I suppose I'd say a total educational overall but even that wouldn't be good enough. In the end you can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn and I don't think public schools even colleges provide the best education for the individual but it does do it's job and that's better than nothing. As for the reason I say this look at such things as the Zeitgeist movement,if education is so great then how can anybody call conspiracy theorist Peter Merola a hero as well as think the economic system caused 9/11, a RBE involves the scientific method, or Fresco has a working venus project. If education worked these few people would see right through this but it's not working and the Zeitgeist movement is a good example of this. As far as investing in green sectors that is an idea. I think manufacturing is vital for the U.S. | |||||
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advancedatheist | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 17:40 |
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Level: 3 CS Original | @Special Ed: I hope you realize the fallacy you've committed. Tarpley's odd notions of history don't have any necessary connection to his ideas we can empirically test in the here-and-now, or at least see them in operation in other countries like China. Why doesn't the U.S. have some useful project funded now to employ people and build up the nation's capital like China's high-speed rail, for example? | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 17:42 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | I see no reason to listen to Tarpley about anything. | |||||
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Omni-Science | Posted: Oct 27, 2010 - 20:43 |
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Ordo Ab Chao. Level: 8 CS Original | Why is that? | |||||
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Edward L Winston | Posted: Oct 28, 2010 - 07:24 |
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President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho: porn star and five-time ultimate smackdown wrestling champion! Level: 150 CS Original | Because he's a moron and a liar, a terrible mix. If you're going to lie about history, at least be good at it. | |||||
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Nanos | Posted: Oct 28, 2010 - 11:32 |
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Level: 0 CS Original | > I think manufacturing is vital Agreed. But how do you make sure people buy products made in your own country and not imports ? Could one employ the use of local currency type solutions to lock people into buying products only made within ones own country ? | |||||
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Agent Matt | Posted: Oct 28, 2010 - 11:35 |
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Genuine American Monster Level: 70 CS Original | Shut the hell up Nanos. Nobody likes you. Go away. | |||||
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