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MuertosPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 02:04
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So, against my better judgment, I wasted a lot of time today engaging in a ridiculous argument on Twitter with a bunch anarchists that I seem to have followed largely by accident. These are the folks who tag "#amagi" in every other post and are the right-wing weirdos who believe that Somalia is a model society and every person who is not a right-wing anarchist is a "statist" who believes in killing millions of people.

I'm getting really tired of ready-minted ideological solutions to the world's problems. If it's not some nimrod out there pushing the "free market" (Paultards, right-wing anarchists, Libertardians etc.) it's somebody else saying we should abolish money (the you-know-who movement) or some other utterly unrealistic idea that would, if implemented, result in the utter annihilation of human civilization.

Whatever happened to people who believe in pragmatic, real-world solutions to political and economic problems? These days it's getting to be that if you say you think the existing governmental or political structure is generally pretty good, if still in need of serious reform, you're some sort of heretic. The U.S. government has a lot of things wrong with it and I certainly don't believe unabashedly in monopoly capitalism. But it seems like you don't even have the option these days to pick a little of one and some of the other. No--people demand absolute compliance with all one ideology or another, and spend most of their time arguing against the obvious problems that adherence to their ideology raises, when they could easily overcome these objections by being less ideologically pure and mixing a little reality in with their theory.

Maybe I'm sabotaged by the fact that most of the people who wind up arguing with me on Twitter are between the ages of 17 and 25 and have no real understanding of how the real world works. Nevertheless, every time I mention anything that smacks of some sort of pragmatic centrist realism, I'm attacked from all sides.

Is political realism dead in today's world? Or is the Internet just a bunch of fricking idiots?

Never mind, I already know the answer to that. I gotta go lie down.

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The Real RoxettePosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 02:22
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There ARE more sluts in public schools. Shut up and let me explain.

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I think it's easier for people to be absolutist, it doesn't require any thinking on their part. It's much easier to say "everything that fits in with this is right and everything else is wrong," even if what's "right" ends up being something like Somalia.

Things like RBE and the exact opposite anarcho-capitalism attract people who want simple solutions to complex problems, even though the solution itself isn't really that simple. It's easy to say abolish money or abolish the state and let money rule all, rather than actually showing how it can be done or examples of benefits.

Sure you can show examples of failed RBE transitions and failed classical liberalism, but true believers ignore these and pretend the evidence you use isn't ideologically pure enough, or in the case of many classical liberals when it comes to third world hell holes, "that's not true capitalism" or RBE fans, "that's not true RBE, it was based on scarcity/whatever."

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anticultistPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 07:04
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Brainwashing you for money

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People like the ability to label and pigeon hole things so they can recall exactly what it is they are dealing with. In your case people are expecting you to conform to a specific ideology so as they can know what they are dealing with and how to debate it and classify you.

People are uncomfortable not knowing, and sadly being real these days means you are an unknown entity because that requires you to be honest with yourself and others, as well as switch and change your thinking and beliefs the more you learn. It seems today that most people find something they believe in and then embrace it in totality and hold onto it until it drowns in its own vomit. When they come across someone who might embrace a small part of their ideology and some of another they tend to want you to be complicit about everything to join their group or to fuck off from their group and not ruin it and become the other identity.

Its group dynamics in effect.

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Wolf BirdPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 07:13
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I shoot you dead.

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What Rox and Anticultist said.

Also the internet is just a bunch of fricking idiots.

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CyborgJesusPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 07:36
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Whatever happened to people who believe in pragmatic, real-world solutions to political and economic problems?

Disillusionment, probably. If you read Taibbi (Griftopia) or Cohan (Money and Power), you might get the feeling as many others did, that examining the current problems will lead you to the depressing conclusion that you might understand what is going on, but that there's nothing you can do about it. No NWO, no single incompetent president to vote out of office, no evil FED to get rid of, just regular waves of collusion, lobbyism, misguided self-interest and propaganda.

The two more popular reactions I've perceived among progressives are to either move closer to the center and accept the status quo as "not that bad", or to move towards the fringes and promote some naively one-sided solution to a multitude of complex issues.

Educating yourself about the problems, even if there's no self-evident course of action resulting from it, apparently isn't that popular, and I guess there's a reason for that.
Sad, but what can you do.

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EzPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 07:46
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The main issue with understanding the current problems that face us is that some of them do not have solutions.

Religious extremism will always exist no matter what, people will have disagreements and conflicts due to differing worldviews or ideologies no matter what, racism, ignorance and intolerance will always exist, some people are always going to break the law or exploit loopholes as soon as they have the chance, and corruption is always going to exist.

That said, problems such as disease and hunger can be either solved or reduced. And poverty can be reduced and the standard of living can be raised for people (everyone is not going to be millionaries, but they can atleast achieve a standard of living where they have everything they need).

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The Real RoxettePosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 07:49
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There ARE more sluts in public schools. Shut up and let me explain.

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I'm having a problem on the FB group with some animal liberation absolutist. He actually compares himself to the slavery abolitionists of yore. Really!

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freeflyerPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 09:25
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Meurtos, in the list you forgot about the anarchist Stefan Molyneux who is otherwise a pretty sensible guy

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Agent MattPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 10:01
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Stefan Molyneux who is otherwise a pretty sensible guy

wat

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MuertosPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 10:42
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Not even going to touch Stefan Molyneux. I seem to have enough ideological adversaries already...

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freeflyerPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 11:18
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Bobbie, I'm not a hardcore follower of him but he has made some sensible posts about child abuse and related subjects. I don't share his beliefs about anarchism etc. and his 24/7 govt bashing irritates me. In any instance, his constantly putting himself out there and advertising has brought him substantial amount of popularity, and like all the others (such as pj, david icke and the likes) freedomain radio can also be included in the list of things conspiracy science wishes to target.

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Agent MattPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 12:23
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I don't think he's as popular as you make him out to be. He's just some dude on the Internet and doesn't have any Realworldistan influence. He's fringe.

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freeflyerPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 13:33
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I see

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KeppPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 16:19
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I've lost interest in politics for this very reason.

It seems like everyone I meet who says "im into politics" turns out to be an ideologue nutjob. There's only be room for binary choices in their absolutist world. And if you don't reciprocate their absolutist ideology then they either get extremely angry, or embark on a mission to "educate" you.

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scitopsPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 17:01
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The truth is right now ideology plays such a part of politics that it sickens me. Recently my state's secretary of state, who is fairly liberal but also practical, was voted out in the Democratic Primary by a lady who comes from a family full of scandal and corruption but won because she appealed to the left ideologues. Depressingly I will still vote for the Dem because her opponent is a birther teabagger who doesn't think the homeless should be allowed to vote even if they are veterans.

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MuertosPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 17:11
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And if you don't reciprocate their absolutist ideology then they either get extremely angry, or embark on a mission to "educate" you.

This is totally true. When you disagree with an ideologue they almost always say, "You don't really understand what we're about" or "you don't know what you're talking about." As if they assume that anyone who understands their ideology will automatically agree with it. That drives me nuts.

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The Burger KingPosted: Jul 18, 2011 - 17:15
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I can't stop posting pictures of poop, what the fuck is wrong with me?

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Stefan Molyneux is full of stupid

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